NT4.0 Installation issues

Upgrading from Windows 95

Dual Booting Windows 95 NT4.0 issues

Upgrading from NT4.0 beta

Upgrading from NT3.5x (soon - need contributions)

Hardware Problems (soon - need contributions)

Software Problems and Incompatibilities (soon - need contributions)

Service Packs and Hot Fixes

Upgrading from Windows 95

This discussion extends a bit into the second part of this FAQ subsection - this first part deals with preparation and some options... This beginner is section is worth looking for a brief review of the fact of computing it might sound stupid but some people install Nt in the hope of fixing problem they are having with Windows 95. This is somewhat akin to trying to put out a fire with turps and deciding that since it isn't working petrol may work better...If you hardware is crap try not to bother... Click Here for a fuller discussion on this.

According to most comments you have to reinstall your applications - this may or may not be true depending on the app in question - you will however lose any and all settings... The Windows 95 registry the thing that contains all you setting is radically diffrent from the NT registry.... You will have to reconfigure you networking etc etc.

You must at some point choose whether you want to use NT as your only OS or to simply dual boot if you choose to make NT4.0 your only OS than remember that most of your games will cease to function OK!!! I personally suggest that you if you wish not to reinstall your apps or at least give it a good shot at avoiding it that you do not blindly format your hard-disk.... Make enough room for NT about 100Mb or so and leave Windows 95 intact - you should convert the partition to NTFS when asked so 95 will not be accessible in any case. Jump to this location in the FAQ to find out about how to make Windows 95 installed apps work in NT...

Some pointers from a list member

Date:          Mon, 8 Jul 1996 16:35:53 -0400
From:         Jason Millington <[email protected]>
Subject:     Re: Best install 95/NT

I have a system setup exactly as you are suggesting. I have 95 running (which you must install first, and then I have NT 4.0 Workstation set = off on a drive of it's own (another 540) which I have formatted NTFS for file security. I then have a third drive 1.6 GB for apps and misc. In this scenario, I am able to multi-boot freely between NT 4.0 and Win 95 and access the third drive for all third party apps and such. I have MS Office and many other applications which write to the registry and/or Windows system files, installed in one location, BUT installed under both NT and 95 (two exact installations, from two different operating systems, but installed in the EXACT same location) . I have had NO problems what-so-ever and would highly recommend such a setup to anyone...

By the way - Keep in mind, you will need to reformat the 540 (if you choose to put 95 on that drive) because you CANNOT make the 95 or drive (or partition) NTFS, Win 95 will NOT recognize it, and as it is it's not going to recognize your NT 4.0 drive, so don't put anything that you need to access through 95 on it!!! That's why I have that third 1.6 GB drive - you only have two drives but you could partition your larger drive...

On a side note, I am running Netscape without much of a problem on NT4.0, However, the new Win NT version of the latest MS Internet Explorer (beta 3) kicks butt... and I use this regularly, without a prob!!!

Good luck...

Dual Booting Windows 95 NT4.0 issues

A first note of warning... OSR2 Windows 95 Release 950b

First instances of people attempting to use OSR2 (Windows 95 950B) have allready begun to surface ... Two issues one the partition from NT boots cannot be a FAT32 partition, two any partition formatted to FAT 32 cannot be seen through NT4.0 support for FAT 32 may be forthcoming but is by no means guaranteed. This very instructive commment comes from Mike Loebl <[email protected]>.

Date:      Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:08:59 -0500
From:     Mike Loebl <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: SOFTWARE INSTALL NT4 & OSR2

Hello,

For Non-Fat32: Install Win95 first as you would normally do, but NO FAT32. Installing Win95 first is much easier, and it will cause a lot less headaches later. After Win95 is installed, go to the NT CD, and in the i386 directory type: "winnt /b", without quotes in DOS. What this will do is install NT, but with a boot menu and install with floppyless operation. When you start your computer, you will have a chose between NT and Win95. Then when you install your apps, all you need to do is install them in one OS, ie in Win95. Then install over the same app in the same dir under NT.

For Fat32: I would not recommend mixing NT4 and Fat32 since it doesn't understand Fat32. You would have to get a third party add on, and most may not work because FAT32 as boot managers since all they do is swap the system files around, and NT will NOT boot from Fat32. Also, believe it or not, you end up wasting more space by going to Fat32, then when you use fat16 if you have multiple OSes. For example, if you install Office 9x on a FAT32 drive, only 95 will see it. You then have to install it for NT in another location. You end up using over 300mb for one application. However, if you install it on a FAT16 drive with Win95 in a directory called d:\Office95, you can then install it under NT in the same dir, taking up only 150mb.

This is what I would recommend; I would partition out you drives using Fat16 to 512Mb, no less. You end up having small clusters, so you don't need to use Fat32. Install Win95 on the first 512mb partition, then NT on the second 512mb partition. I would not install any thing else on those two partitions at this point. You'll not only notice that they are much faster like this, but it leaves room for future expendability, the OS directories themselves can get quite large over the years. I then would install all of your apps on your second drive, partitioning it as you would like. This is what we do at work, and it has works very well.

I was faced with a similar situation myself. I have two 1 gig drives, an old 600 mb drive, and a Jaz drive. I ended up putting 95 and NT on the first drive, apps on the second drive, and then I NTFSed the 600mb drive for NT only apps that won't work under 95. I found the system is MUCH faster this way, and I'm am quite happy with it.

I would definitely recommend checking out Microsoft's Hardware Compatibility List, at: http://www.microsoft.com/isapi/hwtest/Hsearchn4.idc . Most newer systems and hardware will run on NT, but there is almost always exceptions to the rule. Also MS has come out with an app to test your system to see if it will run with NT4, you can find it at: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/common/ntcompto.htm . Finally, install Service Pack 2 at your own risk. It can cause major crashes on some systems, and I have had to redo several systems because of it. I would recommend using Service Pack 1, and Post-SP1 fixes. If you do decide to install SP2, make sure you choose the option to allow you to uninstall.

Sorry if this is a little fragmented, but I had a lot to say plus Eudora crashed the first time, so this is the second time I typed it! (gotta love beta software).

Also, if you have any further questions feel free to ask. I have been using NT4 for a few months now, and I install/administer it all the time at work and at home.

Reinstalling or sharing Apps with Windows 95???

I am really lame I will just reinstall all my applications (What are you doing playing with NT?) - well no need to read on ... skip to the beginners Q&A For those who like a bit of a challenge and dont want to reinstall their apps or want to share apps between NT and 95 keep reading and follow the link after the preliminary discussion.

Now it is time to figure out what apps need to be reinstalled and which don't - Those that put critical information in the Windows 95 Registry are most likely to be a dead loss... However you may be surprised by some of the apps which are either tranportable to the new OS without re-install or can even be shared between the two OS's. Please NOTE that this is only possible when the app to be shared is on FAT because otherwise Windows 95 will not able to acces it!!!!... Please note that most apps even when they do come across succesfully will have to have their file associations recreated....

Apps that definitely do not need reinstallation.

Any off the small tools will quite happily come across especially if they happen to live in just the one directory. Examples of such programmes are Eudora, Eudora Pro, Pfe, Free-Agent, Cute FTP and Paint Shop Pro and doubtlessly a plethora off other small apps... Some of small apps such as Winzip will need to have their registration code re-entered and the reggo code is stored in the win.ini file like this (example only does not work OK)

The registration code would thus need to be recreated in the Windows NT dir's dummy win.ini file for Winzip to realise that it is indeed registered....

Apps that need some work...

I believe that give enough work most apps can be transferred with minimal fuss... if you know the basics of bodgeying stuff i.e. copying files and are persistant you will be able to make most things work - BUT why should you you ask.... Well if you just want to transfer the application and NOT use it from Windows 95 then it may be less trouble to just re-install... However if you have both 95 and NT on your system it will be more space efficient to share the app...Remember it must remain on a FAT partition for this to work...... I mean look at Office Pro you are going to install 2 x 125Mb on your machine??? Or how about Corel Draw 2 x 150Mb...???? Let's face it we are all on a budget - the less we can spend the better....

On My Machine

Windows lives in C:\win my small tools live in C:\Tools and office lives in it's default directory....Any application that I would want to run in both would have to remain on a FAT partition...

OK now some revison of software basics

Now any application installed in Windows 95 / Windows 3.11 can do only about five things....

Action of the Application Installer Transfer and Share action in NT4.0
Make a directory for itself to live in You will probably have to do nothing about this at all at worst you may have to amend the autoexec.bat in the Windows NT partition and add the directory to the path.

path=C:\windows;c:\applicationX
Copy files to the windows\system directory You will have to amend the autoexec.bat in the Windows NT partition and add the C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM directory to the path.
Copies fonts to the fonts folder or system directory Install them in NT but instruct NT not to copy the fonts...(untick copy fonts to fonts folder)
Adds entries to the win.ini and or the system.ini The programme will probably run fine without but if not the cut and past it into the NT win.ini....
Hacks the registry Dangerous stuff to play with avoid this if you can....
Adds a shortcut to the Startup folder/group Is it neccesary for this app to function if not then don't put it in (there are some problems with the Office 95 shortcut bar beware!!)
Add a programme to the load= or run= statements in the win.ini file Is it neccesary for this app to function if not then don't put it in... it can cause problems....

So in order to share an app manually you will have to edit these things manually using a text editor of some kind if you have never done this before at all this is probably not a good time to start....

Transferring and (sharing) applications from Windows 95 to NT4.0
Application Special Notes & Instructions for transferring programmes to NT4.0 Share-able?
Winzip 6.x You will need to dust off your registration code and re-register the app

Yes
Paint Shop Pro Just recreate the file associations

Yes
MS-Office 95 Ok so NT will complain that it can find this DLL that DLL and whatever other DLL and other such rubbish - Because NT tells you what files it can find it was easy enough to find the relevant files and copying to where NT4.0 could see them - but it was nice for Microsoft to recognise the path settings in the autoexec.bat so you guessed it add c:\windows\system and c:\windows to the autoexec.bat and hose down and small problems as you face them i.e. tell it where to find the dictionary files etc.... Just recreate the file associations... Most applications I believe would be transferable using this method...

Yes
Explorer I havn't bothered checking but I believe it is share-able BUT I have found not way to share the favourites folder between the two copies I have running at the moment.... Anyone???

???

Removing the dual boot option

There are a few ways to remove Windows 95 from a dual booting configuration but the following make the most sense.

Or the following advice from:

Recovering the Dual Boot Ability after a Win 95 U/grade or Disaster

Converting those FAT Partitions to NTFS

Date:    Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:18:00 -0600
From:    Jerry Mckane <[email protected]>
Subject:

Converts FAT volumes to NTFS.

Converting those NTFS Partitions back to FAT

Date:    Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:28:27 -0600
From:    Jim Roscovius <[email protected]>
Subject: FW: NTFS ---> FAT

[?] Is backup, format and restore is the only way to convert a partition from NTFS to FAT ?

Unfortunately, yes.

Upgrading from NT4.0 beta

By all accounts some people have had problem in upgrading from NT4 b1 & b2 - the problems with the Cyrix 686 chips are well documented on Web Pages such as Tom' hardware page so I won't bother re-itterating these issue.... I will just present some people's expereince in this section and possible steps they took to resolve their problems as a result of their upgrade. Apparently there were also some version which refused to upgrade from b2 I never experienced this problem as I originally ran NT4 in a DOS partition and nuked my config upon thre release of the full retail version.

Upgrading NT4.0b to full version (unverified - and probably un-neccessary)

Sender:       Windows NT Discussion List <[email protected]>
From:         Christopher Cevallos <[email protected]>
Subject:      Re[2]: Nt b2 -> NT 4.0

It looks like there is a hack to upgrade 4.0 BETA2 to 4.0. From compuserve, here's how to do it:

1. edit the registry hive under BETA2:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\NT\CurrentVersion

by changing the 4.0 to 3.5 (not 3.51)

2. exit regedt32

3. Without rebooting, run [installroot]\i386\winnt32 /u

Upgrading from NT3.5x

Hardware Problems

Software Problems and Incompatibilities

Service Packs and Hot Fixes

There were two service packs and several hot fixes to NT4.0 solving wide and varied problems with NT4.0 .... however if you are new to NT and you tend to to take the same approach as I do to fixes and updated, that is apply them all (I want the latest!!) then unlearn this silly and stupid habit unless a service pack fixes a specific problem you are having DO NOT INSTALL IT.... MS's recent efforts with service packs has hosed a number of machines or at screwed dial up networking service among other things on numerous others. This prompted Microsoft to commit itself to beta testing of service packs. Microsft's statement in it's entirity follows.

Posted at 5:00 PM PT, Jan 16, 1997 Amid a firestorm of complaints about disastrous problems with Service Pack 2 for Windows NT 4.0, Microsoft has decided to open future fixes to greater scrutiny.

"We're going to essentially do a formal beta process that will have the service pack beta released and tested by ISVs and customers, and we will get appropriate feedback to be reviewed," said Enzo Schiano, product manager at Microsoft.

Service Pack 2 was designed to fix about 100 bugs and strengthen NT 4.0's remote-access capabilities. But in interviews and news-group postings, many users said the patch caused more problems than it fixed, including "blue screen of death" crashes and failure to rewrite data to hard drives.

Microsoft acknowledged only two bugs: an incompatibility with the widely used Norton anti-virus program, and flaws with its Multilink remote-access communication facility. Schiano said additional woes were linked to those two problems.

Tom Harris, an analyst with Framingham, Mass.-based International Data Corp., said more extensive service-pack testing is crucial if Microsoft wants to maintain the popularity of Windows NT.

"Any kind of substantial software update -- especially for something as critical as Windows NT, with its mission-critical situations -- is a reasonable thing to do," Harris said.

Many users are leery of Service Pack 2. Nou Sphabmixay, from eLine Productions in San Francisco, said he wouldn't use the service pack after hearing that it wouldn't write data to hard drives.

"I figured I might as well not take the chance," Sphabmixay said.

So positive news for NT users everywhere ... and proof of the old addage if "It ain't broke....."

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Copyright Notice © 1996

Windows NT 4 (WinNT-L) FAQ COPYRIGHT © 1996 by Hans Klarenbeek

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